Notes and presenters' handouts from the Following Sessions at Acq 2005:
Note: As of Thursday May 29, 2008, this conference summary still in draft form, pending editing and reconstructing some of my scribbled notes.
Thursday
Thursday 8:15 AM 8:30 AM
BOOKSTORE TOURISM: A NEW TWIST ON LITERARY TRAVEL. Larry Portzline- Writer/College Instructor, Bookstoretourism.com
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Bookstore tourism - organized trips to bookstores, styled after other themed travel (historic architecture, nature etc)
Thursday 8:30 AM 9:15 AM
FORGING THE LIBRARYS FUTURE IN OUR ELECTRONIC WORLD
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Jerry Kline- CEO, Innovative Interfaces, Inc. (III)
library "branding": picking up on the theme of bookstore tourism, is the library on the college/campus tour?
3 aspects to libraries:
Electronic resources / user behavior: 70% go to Google first; publisher content / Google Scholar. Libraries not getting credit for the information infrastructure (no one mentions library in face of e.g. Ebscohost, a library-provided resource
The place to go. INNreach-style collection expansion. Most patrons will wait the two days it takes to bring in a book through INNreach. Access to books is expanded, and the library gets credit for making books available.
Our books: (we just don't have enough books): 1 million books published per year; libraries typically buy between 1,000 and 50,000 books per year.
Libraries face a perception battle: customer awareness, customer service for today & tomorrow, marketing, the wisdom to know the difference between a trend vs. a fad.
Thursday 9:15 AM 9:45 AM
WHAT WILL BECOME OF US? LOOKING INTO THE CRYSTAL BALL OF ACQUISITIONS AND SERIALS WORK
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Rick Anderson- Director of Resource Acquisition, University of Nevada, Reno Libraries (rickand@unr.edu)
Information has come abundant; attention more scarce. Earlier statement was "content is king"; now, "content is ubiquitous".
Open Access: free, but "boutique"; content not necessarily relevant to populations served
high % of new acquisitions are low-circ, laptops now a fixture --> in future, the cell phone?
Journal inflation doesn't necessarily translate into library budget increases
more laptops, more remote access --> fewer "warm bodies" in the library
More free online info means a hard sell for materials budget
Google Print --> OPAC flight (Google Library) --> implications for OCLC?
same access will need to be purchased, faster easier access needed
library budgets increasingly difficult to justify
note: UNR has done away with serials check-in
Thursday 10:15 AM 11:00 AM
LETTING THE RIGHT THINGS SLIDE: BALANCING THE DEMANDS OF PRINT AND ELECTRONIC RESOURCES
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Albert Joy (moderator), Acquisitions/Preservation Librarian, University of Vermont
Robert Behra- Senior Library Specialist, J. Willard Marriott Library, University of Utah
Rick Lugg- R2 Consulting
Letting the right things slide:
stop checking in, stop claiming print periodicals
more input at fixing URLS in LinkResolver
Tasks: shift from work-intensive areas:
reduce the treatment of donor materials
reduce/eliminate gifts
simplify endowment fund structures
reduce gift plates (i.e. reduce work-intense gift-plate production & processing)
reduce the treatment of donor materials
--> cost over $65 per item when factoring in cost of space, selection time, processing time & system resources.
(11-11:15 parody skit)
Thursday 11:15 AM 12:00 NOON
THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD: GOOGLE CHUGS INTO LIBRARYVILLE
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Mark Sandler- Collection Development Officer, University of Michigan
Mary Sauer-Games- VP and Publisher, ProQuest
Tom Turvey- Strategic Development Partner, Google
Google Print (print.google.com)
Publisher program: up to 20% of the book over a month's time. copy-and-paste, right-click disabled; inclusion is set up to
make it impossible to recompile the whole title over time. Included content is provided by book publisher.
Library program: public domain, links to O-P sites and WorldCat
Library program in copyright: torn page, snippets only; band on search terms. Library/WorldCat; link to buy from amazon.com if in print.
closing statement: Google Print meant to augment books, libraries, librarian, bookstores.
--> my follow-on thought: does something like Google Print have merit for locating available videos that have gone out-of-production?
Thursday 2:00 PM 2:50 PM
DATA, DATA EVERYWHERE: MAKING SENSE OF THE SEA OF USER DATA
Location: Colonial Ballroom Embassy Suites
Carol Tenopir- Professor, School of Information Sciences, University of Tennessee
David Nicholas- Director of the School, Chair of Library and Information , City University, London
Gayle Baker- Professor and Electronic Services Coordinator, University of Tennessee Libraries
Eleanor Read- Social Science Data Services Librarian, University of Tennessee Libraries
Types of Data Gathered:
User data
Surveys/academic staff
library data requests --> deep log analysis, web-log reports
3 types of questions:
demographic, recollection, critical incidents of reading (losts, link-through to source)
Compilation & Analysis:
MySQL, Perl & CGI script, log files compiled monthly
process data with Excel & SAS, extract, reformat, summaries & graphs
purposes served:
Subscriptions management (# of simultaneous users) --> continuation decisions
Services management (campus, off-campus, wireless access)
Issues:
Log requests for access, not session -- no detail once in database.
Undercounts: aggregated databases, bookmarked access, metasearches.
Other sources of usage data:
Vendor-supplied usage report (made available upon request) --> full-text; integrate subscription in vendor info
ARL supplemental stats (should the numbers be challenged?)
Request mode: delivery, format, time period, subscribed titles, all titles --> not COUNTER compliant
COUNTER links: http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/ListArchives/0408/msg00043.html, http://www.projectCounter.org
Other sources of information:
Link resolvers (e.g. SFX, Metafind), Metasearch engines (e.g. Meta Lib)
number of searches that may not count in metadata ez (e.g.?) proxy server
Deep log analysis *raw server logs; Ohiolink)
4 use metrics: #items, pages, #sessions, #items viewed in a session, amount of time.
"items: list of pr contents, abstracts, etc.
Data to be analyzed:
search navigational approach (search engine, journal list)
users: returnees, by sy of journal & subscription note, type of institution
Items viewed: 1, 2/5 or item viewed on-campus (monthly; 894000 extra
type of user, site penetration, returnees -- is the resource being used?
Issues & Questions:
off-campus: data compromised by floating IP addresses and multi-user machines
what can we learn about methods used to find articles?
search engine popularity
engines tend to look at wide range of subjects & older indexes
caching distorts figures; session timeout (call soon(?)), IP, use # of metrics
Thursday 3:00 PM 3:50 PM
THE STRUCTURE OF PROFESSIONAL RESEARCH PUBLICATION IN ASTRONOMY
Location: Laurens Francis Marion
Dr. Michael J. Kurtz- Astronomer and Computer Scientist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Michael Kurtz / Can Astronomy help solve the Open Access problem?
ADS-CDS - ADS search (astronomy data system)
Smithsonian/NASA ADS citation - data-mining technique
publishing in astronomers' archovem not tied to journals per se; astronomers want info pre-print
myADS ArXiv; has historically been collaborative
Archive in print is point of publication for customer
Effect of the ArXiv: money is not the issue in increased discretionary budget
e-print translates into huge increase in article citation
Astronomers want to read ASAP
Astronomers preprint culture drives article need
Danger in "brand loss" -- Astrophysics Journal (print version) is diminished by astro_ph -- may kill some of the value of the journal -- its prestige may be diminished by online scientific communities such as astro_ph. --> Proposed solution: journal publishers would be smart to put up their own pre-print version for free after acceptance or submission; use name (branding!!!) and link to its own journal website & current version.
Scientists want to read: arXiv is a sycophantic organ; it would not exist without the journals themselves.
Journal production cost-intensive non-proliferation vs. deep space / arXiv won't eliminate high journal cost
SPARC consortium; COUNTER example pre-pub notification
all important scientific research is published in pre-pub notifications
Thursday 4:15 PM 5:00 PM
THE INS AND OUTS OF ELECTRONIC INVOICING
Location: Rutledge Francis Marion
Norman Desmarais- Acquisitions Librarian, Phillips Memorial Library, Providence College
Robert Cleary- Assistant Head of Acquisitions, Syracuse University Library
Showed examples and steps of importing invoice data into order records through Innovative Millennium Acquisition.
Thursday 5:15 PM 6:30 PM
JURIED PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT FORMS- Sign Up Required
Thomson product development session
managing knowledge base http://tscott.typepad.com -- courseware with "embedded librarian": collaboration & interface;
marketing/relationship-building
Data transfer protocols and rights issues: ONIX, EDIteur, DRM (digital rights management) and databases
Discussion focused on web-based citation software and the scenarios for use.
Discussion resulted in identifying three distinct user groups:
highly sophisticated online pre-print scientific online sharers & researchers
users with in-between skills, some web surfing and use of library resource and course-related online materials
returners to school in late adulthood, very uncomfortable with technology and not interested in learning new technologies
FRIDAY 8:30 AM 9:15 AM
THE END OF LIBRARIES AS WE KNOW IT, OR WHY THERE'S NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME TO BE A LIBRARIAN
Location: Carolina Ballroom- Francis Marion
T. Scott Plutchak- Director, Lister Hill Library of the Health Sciences, University of Alabama at Birmingham
shift from print to "e"
new "relevance opportunities" in organizing the vast range of electronic resources
migration from paper-intensive processing of print materials to working on link resolvers etc.
shift to technologically intense tasks & new needed skill sets.
new research behaviors --> new library roles
FRIDAY 9:15 AM 9:45 AM
BOOK TO THE FUTURE? 21ST CENTURY MODELS FOR THE SCHOLARLY MONOGRAPH
Location: Carolina Ballroom- Francis Marion
Colin Steele- Emeritus Fellow, Australian National University
Scholarly monograph "Book to the future"
www3.isrl.unc.edu/%tEunsworth/NCRIS.html
www.googledebate.com
Blaise Cronin "Mickey Mouse and Milton"
Monograph is "symbol of tenure" rather than true medium for knowledge distribution
Open Access, e-presses, like IRs
--> dissertation --> EDI (raw data available freeonline) -- example: Amsterdam University Press features free online theses
California e-scholarship
ANU e-press (free online for Australian National Library)
- many downloads in Asia
The Spanish Lake, Monash University e-press, Sydney Univ Press electronic initiative
UTS e-press (University of Technology Sydney)
www.opensourcetext.org
www.la-press.com
Wikibooks "the future of the book"; Google Print and Long Tail (Long Tail links
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Long+Tail%22+libraries&client=netscape-pp&rls=com.netscape:en-US)
shift from "content is king" to "convenience is king"
Taylor & Francis ebooks tr Oxford Scholarship Online
Trends: Maxi-Livres book-vending machine
Starbucks the future mobile office?
self-publishing (can buy an ISBN for $25)
(10:15-10:30am -- parody skit "the vendor visit")
FRIDAY 10:30 AM 11:15 AM
GOOGLE SCHOLAR, ET AL: COMPETE OR COOPERATE? WHAT GOES INTO THE DECISIONS OF INFORMATION COMPANIES WITH RESPECT TO FREE WEB SERVICES
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Angela D'Agostino- Vice President, Business Development & Marketing, Bowker
Matt Dunie- President, CSA (Cambridge Scientific Abstracts)
Suzanne Bedell- Vice President and Publisher, Proquest
Tom Turvey- Strategic Development Partner, Google
Online Content / angela.dagostino@bowker.com
--> history of amazon.com asking for Bowker content; Bowker said no, amazon found other sources of online content --> implications for content producers? Future business models will need to target very specific clientele
--> Google Scholar online content / lack of hardin (?) --> greater exposure to content
Google Scholar can be found using the "more" button (both behind firewalls on the web)
full-text index snippets -- citation extraction
- commercial, hosting service (publishers, societies), public AHS, PubMed, etc
- traffic driven back to publishers
- access tiered (e.g. for entitled users)
- citation ranking element
- also linkage between Google Print & Google Scholar
index update, metadata for publisher, ranking for am..t (?) awareness, research, author name disambiguation (authority control!!), more citation extraction / normalization
documents in local languages
--> My question: Does Google Scholar have potential future Metafind role?
--> Cambridge Scientific Abstracts
Stakeholders: customers, users,staff
Factors: investments, risk, opportunities
Paradigm shift in business models?
Cost/benefit analysis
Costs: authentication, IT/content cost, distant from core
Benefits: Greater visibility/value, ad revenue?
--> Proquest: students more course-centric
Google Scholar partnerships with Serials Solution --> metadata, quality issue
Suzanne.Bedell@il.proquest.com
FRIDAY 11:15 AM 12:00 NOON
MEASURING SUCCESS AND COMPARING OURSELVES IN AN INTERNET AGE
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Stephen Abram- Vice President of Innovation for SirsiDynix
Bob Molyneux- Chief Statistician, SirsiDynix
Measuring success
Issues:
1) sustainability, our relevance
2) millennial user behavior
3) devinty (?) service
4) e-learning & distance education
5) justify in growth & preprit (?) -- measurement, not statistics
6) understanding the metadata (not chagins (?), usage patterns, info not data
7) Building community growth online
8) building for the future, not reparing the present
9) productivity / shifting staff resources
10) bucane (online?) print, eformat
11) budgets & fundraisers
Understand user behaviors; proofs, strategy/vision, knowing customers, "know customers like Walmart", "giving service like
Walmart", "as efficient as GE"
data charts, graphs
Information interview/imparting:
debate & argument (traditional, least desirable)
--> conversation (better)
--> narrative storytelling (best)
personas --> grouping for info-seeking behavior (Cynefin Centre)
ARL, ACRL, LibQual (www.libqual.org and www.arl.org/libqual/geninfo/faqgen.html), COUNTER
(http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/ListArchives/0408/msg00043.html, http://www.projectCounter.org)
Normative Data Project: http://www.libraryndp.info , www.libraryndp.info/ndp_contributors.html
AI component for data harvesting
FRIDAY 12:15 PM 1:45 PM
FRIDAY LIVELY LUNCH
TIER 2 PUBLISHERS: AN ENDANGERED SPECIES?
Location: Colonial Ballroom West Embassy Suites
June Ellen Groppi- Director of Marketing, University of Chicago Press
Tracey Sutherland- Executive Director, American Accounting Association
October Ivins- Consultant, Digital Content & Access Solutions
(for-profit publisher / non-profit societies --> are commercial publishers still "subsizing" money-losing journals with money-making activities for the sake of knowledge dissemination?)
FRIDAY 4:15 PM 5:00 PM
HINARI
Location: Atrium Embassy Suites
Leo Walford- Associate Director, Journal Publishing, Sage Publications
HINARI / Leo Walford, Sage
HINARI - nutrition, health information, development: www.who.int/hinari/en
AGORA - nutrition
aginternetwork.org
Ethiopia has comparatively good access
Armauer Hansen Research Institute (AHRI)
NLM, Pubmed is partner for health, Agricola for nutrition & agriculture
Ebsco/CINAHL
National libraries in member countries are eligible for HINARI -- must register (e.g. Infomed is registered)
FRIDAY 5:15 PM 6:00 PM
DEVELOPMENTS IN OPEN ACCESS: AUTHORS, LIBRARIANS AND USERS
Location: Calhoun Francis Marion
Ian Rowlands- Department of Information Science, Director of CIBER, City University London
Dave Nicholas- Director of the School, Chair of Library and Information Studies and Director of CIBER, University College London
Open Access
(e.g. OUP - disenfranchized virtual scholar)
CIBER; administered by NOP World
-authors want: to choose where to publish; peer review
-authors are brand-driven (incl. career prospects/tenure)
-archive pre-print, postprint, online manuscript submission
-is peer review sustainable?
is Open Access disruptive to current sustem? 53% said likely, 24% "don't know", 23% said unlikely.
good/bad? 42% said good, 23% said bad, 35% said don't know.
Open Access / licensed access analogous to easy tap water / bottle water
Reder facing CIBER studies: what happens when a journal goes Open Access?
OUP opened up web access to Nucleic Acids Research --> web logs of usage data
--> issues have bearing for the disenfranchised virtual scholar
http://www.slais.ucl.ac.uk/papers/dni~20050925.pdf
FRIDAY 5:15 PM 6:00 PM
DEVELOPING A PREDICTIVE MODEL OF LIBRARY COLLECTION USE
Location: Colonial Ballroom East- Embassy Suites
Bob Molyneux- Chief Statistician, SirsiDynix
Measuring NCES data (national data)
Impact studies Florida, St. Louis, South Carolina
How to measure the benefit: RA Fisher/Ken Stubbs (statistics) COUNTER, ICOLC
proxies: count the "easy" components that behave like the hard-to-measure components
historical statistical tidbid: volumes purchased in tandem with the Consumer Price index
- publishing output can be predicted by R&D investment from government
- intangibles can be measured by a measurable indicator
Example: developing counties pay a nominal fee so that the project (e.g. TEAL, HINARI) is valued
--> data analysis looks in terms of distribution (library-by case) (multi-level planes --> multiple regression)
Julian Simon, LibQual, (ARL survey, Institutional Research), Greg Hath ("employee#5", Sirsi database), Bob Molyneux
(this ended early, then went to the already-ongoing Open Access session by the British professors)
SATURDAY 8:00 AM 9:00 AM
Beastly Breakfast on library statistics with Bob Molyneux
SATURDAY 9:10 AM 9:50 AM
SECONDARY PUBLISHING SERVICES: A BEND IN THE ROAD
Location: Carolina Ballroom - Francis Marion
John Regazzi- Dean, Long Island University
STM Research habits survey results:
Librarians' first choice: ScienceDirect, ISI, Web of Science
Researchers' first choice: Google, Yahoo, Pubmed
Trade journals, regulations, technical papers, data integration
Core need: data cross-referencing/comparison/linking; (ABI/?notleg Compendium)
Crop design (decision? disiom[can't read]), climate, geography, pathogens
ad-based business model partnering with search engines
e-learning --> ancillary information services / not likely possible to be low-cost provider (cost of info/infrastructures)
SATURDAY 10:00 AM 10:45 AM
HOW DO WE KNOW WHO WE ARE? THE PROBLEMS OF IDENTIFYING USERS
Location: Carolina Ballroom - Francis Marion
Helen Henderson- Managing Director, Ringgold Ltd
Jim Mouw- Assistant Director for Technical and Electronic Services, University of Chicago
Richard Gedye- Sales and Marketing Director, Oxford University Press
Patricia Harris- Executive Director, NISO
James Mouw, University of Chicago (mouw@uchicago.edu) User identification (user groups, schools, programs, degrees, location,
ISI, Wok example)
NUC, OCLC code, RLIN, DOI, SAN, DUNS & S&P, Zip, Publisher ID, Agent ID, etc
users move around: IP, Shibboleth, Uer ID/password, edu trf
lists, groups, population, as needed (granular / non-granular as needed)
1957 (1987?) Simon Irving, Catchword, 1999 Assoc of Sb agents, 2002 OCLC rights & registry, 2003 NISO EDIteur, JWP, 2005
Ringgold
- Institutional Identifier - NUC & CLSI code (NUC=nmenomic code), NISO
- Ratification/implementation, ISO, NISO, EDIteur, ICEDIS, ONIX (know who is the party involved in transition)
- ILL: MARC & OCLC identifier, Location, SIL (ISIL? [can't read])
--> also: overlap with IAregistry in institutional identifiers (DOI as distinct identifier)
(registry is more than a database --> audrey@atypon.com, www.winggold.com)
(my interjected thought/question: Institutional Repository / IA registry -- trend or fad?)
Note: domain name registry is conspicuously absent from the list of identifiers
--> organizations structured; can have multiple parent organizations
SATURDAY 11:15 AM 12:00 NOON concurrent session
UNDERSTANDING ONLINE JOURNAL USE: A STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CITATION AND USAGE MEASURES
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
John McDonald- Acquisitions Librarian, California Institute of Technology
Open Access
principal correlation analysis / multilinearity / factor analysis
http://library.caltech.edu/john/charleston/macdonald-usage.ppt
http://library.caltech.edu/john/charleston/macdonald-usage.pdf
SATURDAY 12:15 PM 1:30 PM
SHOULD THE PRESENT STRUCTURE OF SCIENCE PUBLISHING BE CONTINUED?
Location: Carolina Ballroom - Francis Marion
Chuck Hamaker (moderator)- AUL Collections and Technical Services, UNC Charlotte
Peter Banks- Acting Vice President for Publications/Publisher, American Diabetes Association
David Goodman- Associate Professor, Palmer School of Library and Information Science, Long Island University
STM - problem is adequate distribution in current publishing model
hrhurie Pem[can't read] now 1,000,000+ articles
key people = authors --> branding issue
key: business sustainability; need return on investment and _growing_ return and up-to-date technology & distribution
Open Access: current models are not sustainable business models; also, STM societies' & university presses' goal is often to merely break even
Some publishers subsidize unprofitable journals from other activities --> practical issue: must have surplus for reinvestment.
Responsible for publishing: author/researcher, external research grants, university funding, internal grants, commercial sponsors.
publishers & libraries "unimportant"; crucial: author & reader
CIBER
Costs (univ & grants): if decentralized, would the cost be cut in half?
Publishing costs should not be at the personal cost of the author or reader
Archiving: need mirror sites for preservation (e.g. Alexandria, archive disappeared and no one knows exactly where the materials went). Also need mirror sites for protection from man-made disasters: e.g. Berlin was designated a scholarly archive, but war and ideologically driven damage hurt this archive of knowledge.
Good starting points: LC & NLM; other institutions need to hook on -- LOCKSS project (electronic example)
Open Access eliminates LOCKSS's layers of authorization and "handshake" --> what about rights?
Highwire cost: much of it is in administration of user restrictions
Access vs. archiving lng-term infrastructure --> checking of article versions (author submitted vs. final accepted version;
which one is online?): no quality control
--> not a simple supply chain but a living organism
When government funds much of the research: needed: balance between government research funding and propaganda/intellectual
control of information flow.
SATURDAY 4:00 PM 6:00 PM
RUMP SESSION: ARTICLES UNBOUND! FREE JOURNALS, OPEN ACCESS, AND IR'S
Location: Carolina Ballroom Francis Marion
Tim Bucknall- Assistant Director for Electronic Resources and Information Technologies, UNC Greensboro
Articles Unbound
Open Access is free, but not all free journals are Open Access (DOAJ titles, AApps (Physics)
--> mostly, they're not in the online catalog. Presenter tested randomly chosen titles from several free-journal sources for
cross-referencing and listing in multiple access points.
DOAJ list: Animal Biodiversity, Animas, Australian Pr[can't read]
web lib (catalog and homepage), non-DOAJ, PNAS, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Economic Perspectives, African
American Archaeology newsletter
JournalFinder (free journals - only one was in DOAJ) -- some not in DOAJ because: local newspapers, not current (e.g. MO
Scientific American, [entagood-can't read] (e.g. BMJ), Choices (from UN - couldn't determine reason for exclusion)
- Highwire, FreeMedicalJournals.com, Scielo, J-Stage {not Jstor?-can't read], EMIS, EZB, etc.
(Library regional cooperation) -- Google lists their [ebs, can't read]
IR (institutional repositories) -- IR costs high: e.g. $285,000 at MIT, CanD100,000 Queens Univ, @200,000 Univ of Rochester, 2280-3190 staff hours at UOn [? - can't read]
Institutional Repositories (D-Lib Mag Jan.2005 (Foster & Gibbons), MIT DSpace
Public Library of Science
MIT is struggling to recruit content for its institutional repository --> ad-based
Institutional Repository --> good PR & grant possibilities
Issue: researchers want quality in their libraries' collections
SerialsSolutions can grab Open Access & free journals linked in databases such as e.g. ABC-Clio's link from databases (my question, what link to free journals? They weren't in America, History and Life when I checked 11-10-2005!)
Personnel/staffing patterns: electronic titles vs. print serials
macep[stop?-can't read] serials check-in, reallocate staffing toward new task spread
Allen Press allows Google to scrape its metadata
FreeMedicalJournals.com
UN, OECD, etc (Google) --> balance between free titles & ILL
Serials Solution should make available harvesting of more free journal sites
SILO (Spanish Science titles)
JSTAGE (Japanese)
European Mathematical Information Service, Euclid (Cornell/Math), Project Hearth (Home Economics site, also from Cornell)
frontload toward implementation costs / hardware & equipment
Page last updated on Thursday May 29, 2008 04:28 PM
.